Nicole: Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast exploring sex, relationships, and liberation. I'm your host, Nicole.
On today's episode, we have a sex educator. Jimanekia Eborn, join us for a conversation about finding presence in the full range of life's emotions. Together we talk about bringing pleasure to your biggest sex organ, your brain. The importance of laughter in sex and finding healing in community. Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Modern Anarchy.
I'm so happy to have all of you pleasure activists from around the world tuning in for another episode each week. Wednesday. My name is Nicole. I am a sex and relationship psychotherapist with training in psychedelic integration therapy, and I'm also the owner of The Pleasure Practice, where I support individuals in crafting expansive sex lives and intimate relationships.
So, the title of this week's episode, Pleasure Activists Embrace Pleasure, Pain, and Everything in Between. Oof, dear listener, I know we had talked a little bit about this last week, right? This journey into pleasure and sexual liberation being full of so many points of confusion and tears and messiness.
You know, I had found it to be so comical that I had. Recorded that intro for all of you, released the episode, and about two days later had a play experience that did bring me to tears. And I was so confused again, and I had to take a deep breath in that moment and remember what I had said to all of you, dear listeners, right?
This journey is messy. We are human beings. We are going to encounter a. complex range of emotions. And when you are a pleasure activist, someone who is tapping into their liberation without shame and embodying the joy of what is possible in your body, you don't get to choose which aspects of the human experience you feel.
If you are feeling the pleasure, that means you are also going to feel the pain. How beautiful, right? To be fully tapped into life with all of its emotions. And that is often what I see in the pleasure activist community. All of us who have such big hearts and we feel so deeply. What a beautiful gift to feel that full range of emotions.
And so what does it mean to be pleasure? present with that and those days of sadness and pain to embrace that for what it is in that present moment. Rather than constantly chasing the pleasure, I think the beauty is found in the light and the dark, really embracing that life is full of both. And because of both, we can know the sweetness of each end of that spectrum.
And of course, for all my kinky folks, you know, the pleasure of the pain too. But y'all, speaking of pain and difficulties and embracing emotions, I am so excited to tell you that I have released my psychedelic jealousy guide. Okay, I have combined everything that I have learned in psychedelic integration therapy, somatic therapy, clinical psychology, narrative therapy, to create a jealousy guide for you.
It is on my website, I'm gonna link it below, and I just published it, and I am so, so excited to share this with you. I can't even fathom. what my life would have been like if I could have found this sort of guide years ago in the beginning of my expansive relationship journey. Wow. There's so many points of that journey where I've cried, been confused, unsure of what I was doing.
And this guide really applies a lot of the psychedelic therapy work of paradigm shifts to help us understand and ride these waves of intense emotions that often come up in non monogamy and expansive relationship dynamics. So that guide is free. It is up there on the website for all of you, and it has been so exciting to hear such positive feedback from the community already who are resonating with the metaphors and the questions.
Dear listener, I ask you so many good questions. As a therapist, you know, I am often thinking about the ways that it is not my job to tell you how to live your life. And if your therapist is doing that, I would recommend getting a new one. Uh, you are the author of your story, the author of your life, and I want to present to you big questions that get you thinking and creatively tapping into the muscle of envisioning your pleasure.
What is the most pleasurable world of expansive relating? And so, this guide is full of questions, it is also full of a lot of intimate details about my own journey, because I am one example, not the example, but one example of someone who has lived into this. In my own personal life and have seen it lived into in my community with my metamors and my partners and the expansive Connections that I have here in my community.
And so dear listener I am just hopeful that that will give you some level of connection and understanding and insight The things that I wish I could have found when I was first beginning on this journey Big psychedelic paradigm shift. And I am so dearly looking forward to hearing your feedback, send me a DM, message me on the website through the contact form, I want to hear how this work is resonating for you.
Alright, if you are ready to liberate your pleasure, you can find my offerings and resources at modernanarchypodcast. com, linked in the show notes below. That is where you can find the Psychedelic Jealousy Guide. It is linked in the main menu and in the show notes below here. And I also want to say a big shout out and thank you to all of my Patreon supporters.
You are supporting the long term sustainability of the podcast, keeping this content free and accessible to all people. So thank you. If you want to join the Patreon community and you get to see an exclusive insights into my life, a lot of personal details, and support the long term sustainability of the show, then you can head on over to patreon.
com slash modern anarchy podcast, which is also linked in the show notes below. And with that, dear listener, Please know that I am sending you all of my queer love, happy pride, and with that Let's tune in to today's episode. So then the first question I like to ask each guest is, how would you introduce yourself to the listeners?
Jimanekia: Mmm. I think that question is so fun, um, because it varies. Today, I would introduce myself as Jimenica Eborn, a person that works in mental health in Toronto. That has been able to support, talk to, navigate with and navigate for multiple types of humans, which has led me into the work of working with sexual assault survivors, sexuality education, working now in true crime in supporting stalking survivors.
And somehow it led me to my dream job of also being one of three in a mental health department for a professional wrestling company.
So I would describe myself today as someone that really wants people to exist in the ways that they need to, and that ways that feel good for them. And also someone that's not going to bullshit you. And if you want to have a very soft conversation, probably don't come over here. Cause I'm going to be real direct.
Um, but I am also someone that will always be honest with you and hold you accountable and keep you present. So today I feel good. I just got out of the desert. So I'm feeling like very connected.
Nicole: Nice. You're in the right space and it's a pleasure to have you. Yeah. I'm excited. Yeah. I'd love to hear more about your personal journey with all of these things and really for you to take up the space to tell your story, wherever that starts that you want to begin that.
I'd be happy to hold that space for you.
Jimanekia: Cool. Let's, let's jump in. I always like to say, uh, trigger warning, take a breath.
We're going to talk about some hard things. And I always start my journey at the beginning, which is, uh, for some people it's always very daunting. And for me, it's just been my life. But when I was one, my mother was murdered in front of me by my possible sperm donor. This person is still in prison. And Is a murderer who has murdered multiple people and has yet to be held accountable for my mother's murder.
So he is still in prison awaiting that trial 35 years later, which is very interesting and annoying.
Yeah, but. From that, I was then raised by her parents and I always say that I was raised in a home with, with some elders, with some old people, which was a bonus and also kind of like tricky. But the bonus is they had done it.
They'd had 3 children, 4 children beforehand, and they knew how to show up, but also they let me be myself. And so that was always really good around high school. I first started studying psychology at the age of 16. And so it's been 20 years that I've been studying psychology and all the forms of it. And I wanted to help survivors.
I wanted to help domestic violence survivors and sexual assault survivors. And which led to the next hard thing. When I was 21, I was raped. And so I will always say that I have been raped once that I will directly account for, but I've been sexually assaulted more times than I can account for. And I think that's one of those things that a lot of femme identified folks, once we sit down and actually think about it, we're like, Oh, that fucking sucks.
Right.
That's like a thing that we have to navigate on a daily habit. And so like many folks, I spiraled and I started carrying a bar in my trunk cherry vodka sours with my drink. It's very quick and easy. And I was not talking about it. I didn't talk about my rape for 7 years. And during that time, I became very violent.
I was fighting people. I was drinking a lot. I just wasn't myself. And I remember one day, my grandmother, who I call my mom, was like, I don't even know you anymore.
Nicole: Wow.
Jimanekia: And What are you talking about? And then I was like, Oh, she's right. And that around 27, 28 is when I first told my friends that I was raped.
And then I talked to my family about it. And it was because I started transitioning my career from working in just mental health. So I started working in mental health at 21. 28, I transitioned into more sexuality education. And I was talking more directly about sexuality and rape. And like, there's so many people that want to sell lubes and condoms, but what about the people that look at it and go absolutely the fuck not.
And so I was like, Ooh, I want to talk about the uncomfortable. And that's how I got into the sex ed world.
Nicole: Well, I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your story with me and all of the listeners here in this space. I came into the field of psychology with a similar interest, right? To work with sexual assault survivors.
And in my, I had first like volunteered as a counselor that would go to the ER and sit with people and do that. Yeah. That's how I started. Yeah, exactly. That one on one crisis. Yeah. Which is a lot to hold, you know? Um, but it's definitely what propelled me to go and get my doctorate. And then I got into the field and there has been no discussion of how to work.
with sexual assault trauma survivors. And so that was very eye opening to realize. It's wild. Yeah. I know. There was one trauma course that was required at my school, but it's not required at all training with the APA. It's not required for all doctorates to get this. Um, and even then it was difficult.
general, right? So like there was no discussion of how to work with sexual assault survivors, let alone discussions of sex, right? So there's like no discussion of sex, no discussion of how to support them. And then when you think about like, you know, the rates, they say like one in four women, right? And then you, we have to understand that's probably a low estimate too, right?
Jimanekia: Yeah. For sure, because most people don't report.
Nicole: Right. So, but even if it is one in four, then you're telling me one in four of your female clients are going to have this, and it's even higher if you're queer and have different identities, right? So then we're like talking even more. And then when we look back at like the historical context of like, marital rape wasn't illegal in the United States in all 50 states until 1997.
Jimanekia: Which is wild. I also, so I went to school for marriage and family therapy. I decided to not go the licensure route because I was in classes and I was like, what? That's wild. But like you said, I don't know any FEM identified person that has never been assaulted. That is more than one in four. I know. That is scary.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I know. And I think we're all collectively healing from that trauma.
Jimanekia: And doing our best every day.
Nicole: Right, exactly. And so, yeah, it breaks my heart that there's not enough training for the people who are supposed to support that of where to go, which is why it's great to have people like you, right.
Spaces like this, where we can talk about that because it's way more common, I think, than we really talk about. And so, you know, going back into your story for a little bit, you know, those issues Yeah. What made you shift out to finally tell someone, cause I'm, I'm thinking about maybe a listener who's in a similar boat, right?
Who hasn't told someone about that. I'm curious what that nudge was for you and what was going through your head at that time?
Jimanekia: Great question. Yeah. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that. I was tired. I was physically tired because I was drinking a lot and like partying, you know, when you're in your 20s, no one pays enough attention to the drunk girl dancing on the tables.
People just think they're so fun. Like, no one ever checks in on them, right? Like, as survivors, oftentimes we learn how to carry a mask on. And, you know, we present well or we present fun and no one pays attention, but I was really tired. I was tired of feeling. I was tired of, you know, not understanding myself.
And it was something about the age of 26. That was like, we got to figure this out. Like, maybe it was the anxiety of turning 30 soon. And now I'm like, I can't wait to be 40, uh, but like, maybe it was that, but. Everyone says, well, you have to go to therapy. You have to go and talk it out. And I like to remind people there's many ways to process trauma.
Nicole: Mm-Hmm. .
Jimanekia: And for me, I went spiritual first. Mm. I didn't go to church.
Nicole: Sure.
Jimanekia: I grew up in church, but I did not go to church. But I went to learn how to reconnect with my body.
Nicole: Mm.
Jimanekia: So I learned how to meditate. I went to reading cards and working with someone and whatever their abilities were and reiki. And then I went to talk therapy and I also did like somatic work and it's an ongoing process, right?
Like, there is no just like, Oh, I'm healed. I took my magical pill, right? It's not real. But I will say that I was tired and I knew that saying out loud would make it real. And that saying it out loud would take some of the weight and the pressure off of myself to be able to exist.
Nicole: Sure. Yeah. And it opens the door for your community to care for you and love you and to know the pain that you're holding.
Jimanekia: For sure. And. It's a new test into vulnerability. I just re listen to Brene Brown's journey on vulnerability. I like to revisit where my brain has been as I'm expanding and it was 1 of those times where I. Let empathy really show up for me. Like I let people be empathetic to me and not feeling like a burden.
And I think that's also a thing that a lot of survivors feel is that they are a burden sharing their sharing what has happened to them takes up too much space, or they don't want to put that on other people. And that's another reason is for survivors. We know what we are feeling. And so much sometimes we don't have words, but our bodies know, and we know how hard that could be for us.
So we don't want to put it on people that we love. But this is also the reminder of those people love you and want to show up for you. And we have to trust that. Right.
Nicole: Exactly. And that's part of the healing process.
Jimanekia: Yeah.
Nicole: Go ahead.
Jimanekia: No, you're good. I was like, yeah, it is. Yes.
Nicole: Right. To be held in community.
Right. To know that we don't have to hold that all by ourselves out there. Right. And, and to keep that there's so, there's just so much internally going on. So to, to know that other people understand and see that pain, I feel like is like a huge piece of the healing process. And I'm so glad that you were able to find the spaces where you're able to connect to your body again.
That's another thing that the. Zero training in my doctorate other than, you know, I've been very lucky with the clinical site that I'm training at, but my school education piece had nothing about the body. And so when we're thinking about trauma, you know, it's sure the narrative of your experience of how my framing and understanding this and moving forward.
But it's also like, What am I feeling, sensing in the body? And how do I reconnect? Because the body, you know, to keep us safe will shut down and disconnect because that's what's safer, right? And so what does it mean to reconnect to that as part of the healing process is another whole area that really gets left off.
Jimanekia: Yeah. Something that people don't talk about enough. And I think I've been really letting it rumble through my brain is how sexual assault is a community issue. It's very much a community issue in the sense of how do we hold people accountable? What are we even let's take it back. How are we educating people?
Right? Like, we, we know sex ed is very half assed. Um, if we're just gonna be honest here, it's very half assed, and I always say that I am a sex educator that is very much comprehensive. Sure, we're talking about body parts, but what about where your brain is? That's our biggest sex organ.
What about where your emotions are? What about, you know, gender identities? What about communication skills? Like there's so much more that could help us not be harming all these people. But I also understand, right? Like sexual assault is a power dynamic, right? If we held these people accountable, if we put other things in place, do I have all the answers?
No. But if I sat down for a while and had a little herbalization, I might be able to, but I think it's, it's a way that we don't. We're not raising people in the ways to their best ability, which is further harming others. And so when they make their choices, how do we hold them accountable? Because right now, we live in a very much shame focused society.
That's the reason we don't come forward. Right. Because of the shame. It's wild outside. That's, that's it.
Nicole: I know. I know. And I want to hope that we're moving towards positivity and getting better, but there's still so much to do. And yeah, the messaging around what we teach people around sex is a huge piece of that.
I had recorded with Dr. Rachel Smith on purity culture dynamics, which is where I come from and the grooming nature of what happens, you know, when you're not. Educated on sexuality and boundaries and pleasure. And, you know, what happens is, you know, you're not, you know, even finding the language for this, I think is tricky, but the research had shown that people who had gone through purity culture showed the same sort of symptoms of people who had gone through childhood sexual assault and yeah, the reality, you know, you're just not taught.
And so I. She had just talked about the ways that she would see again and again in her groups, people who felt like purity culture had groomed them for their sexual assault because of the lack of conversations around their body and their pleasure. And I had just had a conversation with Dr. Julianne Hauser that I recorded last week, and she was just talking to me about teaching her daughter, uh, the word clitoris.
Right. And like to teach her that word without whispering. Oh, this is your clitoris. But to actually just like teach an anatomy lesson of like head, shoulders, knees, clitoris, right? Like just like basics, you know? Um, but like that is so wild to be teaching children, you know, and there's so much context to that, but it's like, yeah, when we don't.
educate people, just a pure basics of anatomy of your body. Like this is part of the world that we're talking about that is dark and contributes to all of this because it's shameful then. And we don't talk about it and we have to be secret and all that. And it contributes to this.
Jimanekia: So much. Yes. So much.
Yes. When people don't have the conversations and don't feel comfortable, they're not going to have any conversations, right? Including when we're harmed or Have friends that you can, like, have these conversations with. Some people don't even talk about sex with their friends. And I'm like, what?
Nicole: I know.
Jimanekia: My friends. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I wish that there was education in conversations that were authentic. The fact that we can't even talk about our body parts is wild. The fact that in sex aid, they don't want to talk about pleasure and only talk about creating life is wild. That's already framing sex around it's only for this thing, which allows for, well, if it hurts, I guess it's supposed to.
Now you're harming yourself. Now you're traumatizing your body and all these things like, oh, we can talk about this for three days straight. But
Nicole: three decades, three lifetimes, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. I know. I know. And I think that I try to hold the context to like, uh, Margaret Sanger, Emma Goldman.
These people were being arrested in the thirties, 1930s. So I'm looking at the date in the corner, 2024. Right. So God damn, it hasn't even been a hundred years. Right. That these sorts of conversations around contraception and access to our bodies, you know, so
Jimanekia: happening right now,
Nicole: right? Well, exactly. At least we have birth control shit.
You know what I mean? Like compared to then. So, so it's hard. I think it's hard to hold that nuance of like, we're progressing so much because of something as dark as the internet, right. And all of that, but also lacking so much here. So I like to believe though, that, you know. Previously, prior to the internet, you couldn't, you know, Google these things in ways and I think that that's part of what this movement of pleasure is bouncing off of is so many people starting to actually have this conversation that we're talking about of like, Oh, we never got education and the same thing, you know, I work with psychedelics and therapy so that I'm thinking the same thing with drugs, right?
It's like, drugs are bad. Drugs are bad. Drugs are bad. And we're like, yeah. Hmm, maybe that's not true. You know, maybe it's more nuanced than that, my friend, you know?
Jimanekia: Yes. Like for, for many people in the pandemic, I am one of those people that was like, I should learn more. I'm going to do school. And so I was researching I did psychedelics research, and then I did another program in alternative medicine.
Because of this, like, the nature of this medicine, you know, because I think you and I look at it, it sounds like similarly. And when you use it correctly, it can allow you to connect with your body, connect with your thoughts and process in ways that you might need some of that blockade removed, right?
There is such shame around It's not like we're over here shooting up heroin. You got a little mushroom, you know, maybe it'll help. Maybe a little acid. I don't know.
Nicole: Even then with heroin, I'll push you here. I mean, like, do you know, um, Carl Hart, Dr. Carl Hart?
Jimanekia: No. Tell me more.
Nicole: He's a, a black man that did a lot of research on the ways that like heroin had really like wrecked his community and then went back into the research and then Oh my God, all this research is super flawed and I'm gonna be a man to stand here and say that like I do heroin and I'm have a doctorate and it is not bad.
Jimanekia: I do know who this is.
Nicole: Yeah.
Jimanekia: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I think it, I think it's interesting, but I think there's. And anything you can do too much.
Nicole: Oh, sure. Right. But I think that that's an important piece because I feel like I get there's a lot of this like psychedelic exceptionalism, right, where it's like, Oh, like mushrooms are good.
Weed is good. This is good. And it's like, no, because I also can see people who use psychedelics to, uh, spiritual bypass, right. And just like run over and then do it again and get it. So it's like all of the drugs, you know, it's not the drug. It's. The relationship we have to it, right? So getting that deeper context to be able to have that, I think is really important because otherwise we're just going to continue to like, go down the same path of like, Oh, this one's fine, but that one's wrong.
Where I think we go back to the research and it's more about the context. There was, um, that rat park. Research, did you hear about that one?
Jimanekia: I don't remember, tell me more so my brain clicks in.
Nicole: Yeah, they had put the, uh, rats in a cage with heroin and cocaine water. And then the rats, like, drank the heroin and cocaine water so much so that they killed themselves.
And then we, I think this was 70s. I don't know. Um, and then they made this whole, like, you know, conclusion that like, Oh, look at the drugs are bad. Like there's severe addiction, et cetera, et cetera. And then they put the, uh, a new researcher came in and was like, let me redo this. Actually, let me see this again.
So let's put the rats in a cage with other rats and with stuff to do. So they made like a park for the rats. And then they put the rats in the cage with the heroin and cocaine water and they barely drank it, had no issues. And thrived, right? So then there's this big, like revolution, I think, in terms of like addiction and re understanding that it's a much bigger conversation around the relationships that we have to the substances.
And then like, what the hell is society doing to you? Like, what cage are you in? Right? Like, do you have access to stable housing? Do you have access to a stable community? All that stuff is like, what produces these narratives around these certain drugs being like, Ooh, you know? So it's like, Ugh. Another, another three decades.
Right. But it's true.
Jimanekia: It is true. Right. Like I, I do, I volunteer on Sundays and throughout the week, depending on where the non profit we work with the houseless people, if they're just out here doing drugs and stuff. And I was like, Hey, excuse me. I've never been homeless. So thankful, but I also don't know what it looks like to be out here trying to survive.
Nicole: Right. You know, it keeps you warm? Meth keeps you warm,
Jimanekia: does a lot of things. Right, right. You know, like. I don't know what it looks like to be in that type of traumatic situation, which I think will overlook and, you know, speaking to back to sexual assault. That's a trauma. A lot of us know death is a trauma that a lot of us know, you know, turning on the news can be traumatic for people.
And I think that we are constantly being bombarded in so many different ways that we're so stimulated that for some people. Including myself. It takes a lot of a lot to get you back to even a neutral baseline. The variance of life. Like this year for me has been the most unfun year. With like navigating my body at a breast reduction last year, this year, my body was relearning itself.
I was navigating this person going to prison, hopefully, or staying in prison for my mother's murder and then my grandfather died, like my dad, who my G dad, as I've been calling him recently, since he's passed my baseline has shook it. And I don't think that we take into account enough. Yeah. Of how much life keeps life in, right?
So then you want to add in sex and then you want to add in relationships and then you want to, you got to eat. It's a lot to navigate. And I think we're doing a disservice to ourselves, especially in this country that does not have siestas and pushing us to keep going and going when really we are Okay.
In a trauma cycle.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Yep. And no universal health care while other countries get that. Easy. And you're just like
Jimanekia: And that we somehow fund some of the other countries, but can't fund ourselves to get universal health care. This is
Nicole: I know. Not the best country, let me tell you. Sorry to burst your bubble, listener, but we are not at the top.
Jimanekia: No. We're just bubblies. But that's another See? Another pot. We can talk about everything.
Nicole: It's all related, right? Like how are you supposed to have a great orgasm when you're worried that oh shit in my state if I get pregnant I can't get an abortion or if I actually get pregnant and I want to keep the baby.
It's gonna cost 40 plus, that might even be a low ball shit, I don't know, 40 plus thousand dollars to deliver the child in this hospital, right? So it's like, how are you supposed to have a good orgasm when you're carrying that, right? Let alone the other stuff, but like, it's all super related. So I kind of get a little.
A little angry when people are like, oh, like I talk about sex and not politics. I'm like, well, , I don't, yeah. I don't know how you can do that. You know what I mean?
Jimanekia: You can't, no, you can't talk about anything without politics because of the way that this country is curated. Okay. I am also petty, so I just, I I've been to school a lot.
Listen, I've been this bullet . I, uh, last year you have the degree my pettiness led me to studying law. And criminal justice again with rape investigation. I stopped because my dad got really sick. Could I go back? Yeah, but I'm also tired of school. And then the first, I remember reading my first book and it basically, I'm going to summarize it in the most bullshit way.
Cause it was bullshit. Basically it was like, we have a lot of loss. Some people sat down and made them up. They don't all agree on what's actually written. So they kind of just decide when it comes up. So you're telling me we're living off vibes. Cool. Cool. Cool. So it's like a tick tock culture is how this country has been ran.
And I was like, Oh, okay, well nothing matters now. Enlightening to say the least, right? You're like, this is so, I feel so safe here.
Because it is right. Like it is our bodies. are policed. The ways that we show up is policed. And what is policing? It is control. Why was policing created? To control slaves. And like, You can't, like you said, you can't not think about all the things. And for some of us, like you said, we're very present in thinking about everything at one time.
Nicole: So then I'll ask you if you're like me and that brain is always running in about like, what the fuck systems, how do you tap into your pleasure?
Jimanekia: Yes. I'm a very sexual person. I've always been a sexual person and I questioned it after my rape. And I was like, nah, this is just what you've been. How do I get into my pleasure is being honest.
And I think for me, starting out was like figuring out how I like my body to be touched. And so getting into my pleasure took a long time and it was masturbation. It was sex toys. It was learning new positions that my body likes learning that. Hey, I need to hit, push my hips up for me to enjoy this. And so how do I find that?
How have I found it? Trial and error. And I think that's the most honest thing is trial and error. And sometimes you're going to do goofy things and you're going to laugh and you're going to fart and you're going to clink and body fluids might fluid, but. It's all educational and I am a big person that pushes like self dates.
And so I did a lot of self dates to figure out what that pleasure look like. And how I also get into it now is also understanding what safety looks like for me.
Nicole: Yeah.
Jimanekia: In the way that I talk about safety in the ways that, because it connects to me as their safety in two, with two forms. There's the external safety that most people just see, like, there's no one here to harm me.
Yeah. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Like I don't see anything. Is the house on fire? Whatever. Okay. I feel safe that way. But then there's the internal because our biggest org sex organ is our brains. Am I present? Do I got to buy groceries? Oh shit. Is this due? Oh my God. I got to pay bills. Do I like this position?
How does my body look? Oh shit. Even with myself, I'm like, does I, do I look wild? Like if I do this with someone else, is it going to feel weird or look weird? And so. Yeah. A lot of trial and error and like laughing at myself. I think laughter is really important in sex with yourself with other people. I will tell people up front, we might high five at the end of this and they go, what?
And I'm like, what? We might, I don't know, we might be magical and vibe. We look at you. Congratulations. Yeah. Yes, trial and error, allowing myself to be present, laughter is also really good, and safety is a really big thing. Being a survivor or not, we, we want to not think we're gonna get murdered. Like, that's a little distracting.
Nicole: Right, right, exactly. How can you play and access pleasure when you're in your, that space, right? You can't. And I think that's why I've been so interested in like, yeah, what does the future of accessing play with sex and intimacy look like, right, like if we're, Talking about the body and like sensory motor therapy, we'll talk about the way that, you know, when we're in high dysregulation, the opposite state of that is play.
And so, sure, let's, how do we get from that to that, right? And, and like you said, it's probably this like, Spiral up, down, back, forth, backwards, three steps, and then four, two, and you're just like, okay, we're still rolling here. But, um, being able, like you said, to laugh and, and just be comfortable with the humanness of all the sounds and the fluids and the, all of that, right?
To embrace that humanness so that you can. play with your body in a mirror, right? One of my favorite things to do, particularly given, like we said, the lack of education, right? To just be able to be with yourself and see in your mirror your anatomy and can you seduce yourself? I think that's a fun space.
Like, can you, you know, it's like, um, is it Mel Robbins who has the like high five in the mirror?
Jimanekia: Oh, I don't know.
Nicole: There's some sort of self help coach that, uh, I've tried. It's really hard. I don't know. Like her recommendation is to wake up in the mirror and look at yourself and high five yourself and be like, you got this.
And so, you know, I'm thinking like parallels of that, like, what does it look like to come into the mirror and be like, I'm a seduce you, right. And like have that sort of experience to be able to embody that. I think that these are ways that we can start to, you know, if, if maybe doing that with a partner feels.
It's too difficult, right? To start in that space can be a good place to start running.
Jimanekia: Yeah. I love a photo shoot.
Nicole: Ooh, yeah.
Jimanekia: Well, one, my friend got me this sign that says bad bitch and it like lights up my room and cool. And so now I bought one of these light bulbs where I can change the colors and I just, I love it.
do it. And for me, I will take photos to like, see myself. I think there's also the conversation of a lot of us don't actually see ourselves and the way that other people do. And so I'm like, I'll look in a mirror and then I'll be like, Oh, and then I'll look at a photo. I'm like, who the fuck is that? And so I will take photos to also connect with my body.
If I'm like, I am, I'm not, I haven't felt sexy lately. Like I haven't felt connected. Like, Oh my God, when's the last time I masturbated? Like, what are these things? And so I'll do a photo to help me get into that. And then, you know, some, maybe someone lucky we'll get to see them or they will be just for me.
But a photo for me is also playful, right? Like sex should be fun. Yeah. Sex should be pleasurable. It's not always about having an orgasm. No. But it should at least be fun. You should enjoy it. You should want to do it again. And sometimes we have sex with people and we're like, that was awful. I don't think that was fun.
I don't want to return. And people are like, you shouldn't call sex awful or that person wasn't good at sex. Here's the thing, sometimes we have to be honest. Yeah. and sometimes we should go back and learn some more.
Nicole: Yeah. And you know, if you're a sex expand, right? Right. And if you're a sex educator like myself, right.
I dunno how to say, but if sex is an art with a language, some people dunno how to speak it. And you might be super fluent with many years of experience. And then you meet that person, you're like, Whoa, we are on radically different pages here. And I don't have the years to teach you to how to get here without you paying me.
Jimanekia: Right. And now this is a class. Now I'm a coach. Now I'm a therapist. You know, I'm also a big component of sending Have you ever taken this test? Have you read this book? But I think there's also the, the willingness to be vulnerable to learn and want to learn, right? Because you can't also have that conversation with people like, Hey, not saying you are awful, but like what you're doing doesn't work for my body.
Can we have that conversation? Can I teach you how to at least show up for me? And if they're not willing to then release them.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think the tricky part is like the embodiment piece. I think that's mostly what I feel like sometimes I meet people and like lack is like the, just the ways that they're not like fully in it and like ready to go for this and play in that way.
It's like a very like timid, soft, like demure or like little this. And it's like, I don't, I don't know how to send you a book for that, you know, other than like truly years of like, Kind of what we were talking about earlier of learning how to play in the mirror and other sorts of stuff like that, right?
It can be really hard and I I don't think people really talk about that Like we talk about like mismatched but libidos and stuff But like what about truly like mismatched like levels of how to dance here, you know what I mean? Like we're just two different pages
Jimanekia: Which takes us back to the lack of education, lack of support and our good girlfriend, shame because that's why people weren't learning these things.
I grew up with cable and a door. So late night shows. See, real sex, taxicab confessions, the bunny house ranch. And it was very educational, but also it taught me to go, that seems like that's not for me. That's, that seems intriguing, right? To even see the things and then later be able to research and understand.
And then even later to call some of these people, my friends of who I've learned from is also a privilege. And I get that. The education is out there, y'all. There's so much education and there's so many people that you can find to learn from that, like, match your libido match your education style. And so now people are like, well, I don't know.
And I'm like, have you tried?
Yeah, you haven't. Okay. Well, we got to start somewhere. And, you know, sometimes it's taking it back to bare basics. Let's do a little sex 101. Let's learn about what a clitoris looks like and where it's at.
Nicole: Right. Exactly. The very basics, right? And sometimes I like to recommend for clients to read like smut or other sorts of books that have stories and to read them out loud.
I want to hear you say that, right? Part of that I think is, again, and you can do that at home. Dear listener, right? Like pull it up and like practice. What does it sound like to actually get those words? Like I want you to lick my pussy and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like what does it sound like when you're actually trying to voice that into the air rather than just reading it or seeing other people say it?
Like embody that with your own voice and practice there.
Jimanekia: I wish, We felt more like we could. Yeah. Right. Like we are sitting here as 2 individuals that clearly have done work and have read things and been like, I think I could do it differently.
Nicole: Yeah. Yes. Yes, we have.
Jimanekia: I don't know about that 1. Right. And I hope that the journey continues for individuals and learning that no matter what age or where you are, that you hear these conversations.
That you're still allowed to continue evolving. Like, we're never done evolving. And if you feel like you are, I'm crushing it. And you should probably look back at that drawing board and try it out a little more.
Nicole: Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's been one of the biggest things that has evolved is like what I'm attracted to has just grown.
Continues to like yeah, you're already making a face. I'm curious if you want to respond because it keeps the target is moving and I'm like, okay, that used to do it and it is no longer doing it. Where, what, what is the thing that's next? Where do I go? I'm curious thoughts.
Jimanekia: Yeah, absolutely. I love this. So I am a big component of a yes, no, maybe list.
Okay. Yeah. I happen to have one that every time I get there, like, this is the longest list I've ever seen. And I'm like, thank you so much. It is six pages. Amazing. And I have ideas, the things that I'm like. Maybe one day that seems exciting and then I've had ideas and then tried them be like, nah, that wasn't it.
That wasn't for me. Or like, I don't know, maybe I should try more anal. Maybe I am connecting in a different way. You know, maybe I got this lube now or maybe a gang bang on a floating bed could be cute. Totally. Right. Totally. The ways that our brains expand. Is really important because as we are continuously aging, we're consuming more information, the level of play changes, the level of also embarrassment changes, like the things that maybe when you're a teenager are super embarrassing.
Now you're like, I mean, fine, who cares? Like, and so. I think acknowledging and allowing ourselves to continue going. I'm not that person because you shouldn't be. You better keep evolving the 16 year old version of yourself, but I love exploring new things and new events and I'll go to an event and be like, that was not for me, but I tried it.
Nicole: Yeah, you took the bite and you found out and you're not required to eat the whole thing and that's okay, right? You now know in our lives. Yeah. Part of it too is also like I've had things where I've been like, never would I ever do that.
Jimanekia: And now, and now I'm like, look at me.
Nicole: I know. And you're like, Oh, I, I didn't know.
I didn't know, you know? And I think that, uh, part of that is also just like taking the larger cultural context to these discussions, you know, where it's like, if you grew up with parents that were swingers, you know, your paradigm of what's possible is very different. I've recorded with people who've talked about that, right?
Like you, you come into a space of like, Oh yeah, threesomes. I don't know. Okay.
Jimanekia: Your normal is different.
Nicole: Totally. For someone who came from purity culture, that idea was disgusting, right? How dare I give myself to two people that would be just unfaithful and immoral and, uh, you know, but here I am now having, you know, explored and, you know, like, ah, this is great.
But like, I think it's important for people to remember that because of your culture, because of the normalness of whatever that is, those initial gut reactions you have. Sometimes our reflection of the system you're in and not you.
Jimanekia: Yeah. I mean, even if just taking it to like the just relationships, I happen to know a lot of people in my life that were cheaters in my family.
And I said, Hey, I feel like there's a different way. And for me, I was like, I understand. And I speak to this about being a survivor. Sometimes we now need different things. We need different people. We need multiple people to support us. And as someone that has navigated life as someone that has been polyamorous before I had the language,
and now I'm like, this makes sense. Right? Like I have different styles of relationships. I have different partners because I also seeked out that there had to be a different way than continuously harming people if I felt that I needed more. And I do. So that's why I have multiple partners because I personally need more, but I'm also not one of those people that's like polyamory is for everyone, non monogamy is for everyone because it's not.
But I, I think we're both imploring people to figure out what does work for you. Okay.
Nicole: Mm hmm.
Jimanekia: Yeah. And then if you try it, you're like, I was just kidding.
Nicole: Well, and you try it too. And it's scary as fuck. And you get up to that rock climbing wall and you're like, this looks so scary. And then you go and you fall off and you're like, Oh my God, that was terrifying.
And the problem is though, if you stop right there and you say, I'm never going to try rock climbing again. Versus the, you know, this is scary. This is new. I maybe fell off and I'm going to keep climbing. You know, I just, of course, it's not for everybody, particularly because of culture, right? These are such deep things with such significant meaning.
But also, like, when you look at the data of how much sexuality drops off in long term monogamous relationships. And that like historically most relationships weren't monogamous, you know, like men would run around and have other people and then women would do it very under, under, you know, code and secret.
And so like, I was listening to Esther Perel talk about how, you know, her stats were that, you know, infidelity might be as high as sex. Seven in the 70%, but it's really tricky because we, it's a really hard data to get because one, no one wants to confess to that shit. Second, like, how do you actually define that?
Right. Some people call emotional cheating, you know, is a kiss is this or that. So it's really gray, but if just hearing Esther say it's as high as 70%. Oh, I don't. I don't know. We got to rethink. We got to, we got to rethink this thing. We really have to rethink this thing. Right. And just the, just the way that libido drops off for people in long term relationships.
Like I just wonder how many people are trying to fit into that mold because of the levels of disgust that they feel about the other option, but not being able to take that larger cultural context that, you know, we've been sold a lot of narratives about the ways to exist in our lives. So. Of course, it's going to be different for each person, and that's the beauty of this, right?
We wouldn't all want to be the same in this boat. That's the beauty of everybody. But I do think there are a lot of people who would benefit from being able to have that freedom that feel really stuck in their culture.
Jimanekia: Mm hmm. I was having this conversation with one of my Guy friends recently, and I was like, you know, what's interesting because we were both black.
And I was like, you know, what's interesting, like the ways that we are both kinky and non monogamous and we have these conversations. And I said, the amazing part is we have found our fuck it.
I call it a fuck it. Our fuck it to be like, I mean, fuck it. Why shouldn't I be happy? Fuck it. Why shouldn't I try this?
Like, and we have other people look at us and they're like, how do you do it? Like, we're just mythical creatures when really we can all do it. You just got to find your fuck it. Are people going to judge you? Yeah, so what? But are you happy? Do you feel good? Do you feel healthy? Are you enjoying something in your life?
Are you harming people? Then that's a different conversation. But if you're not Like, it's not a mythical thing we're all allowed, but like you said, society tells us that we're not, because it's a whole big control thing. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. You want to go there? You want to go?
Nicole: How deep you want to go to capitalism?
Jimanekia: It is all such a big control thing, and it's all fucking made up. It's all made up guys. I don't know if you heard. It's all made up. Money's made up. Laws are made up. Structure is made up. And we all kind of go, okay, I guess that's what we're doing. In the beginning, they were trading money as rocks. Now we got Venmo.
Right. Which is even making it feel even more like not real when it's just like a number in the bank account that we just like shoot text across over to. There's now like not even like that tactile. Yeah, nature to edit any of it anymore, but like. The implications for that money is very real. So I think that I just, you know, yeah.
And I think that when you're trying to explore open relating and of any sort, just normalizing the hell out of the discomfort that comes with that process is so, so key. Because if you're looking at other people who do it, I think that was a lot of what feedback I got from people about my journey when I would be like, Oh, Oh my God, I was so jealous and so scared.
And then I cried and I was, uh, and they're like, you struggle with this. And I'm like, Oh my God. Yes. Like, right. Like, I think that's such a big piece of this. Like you were talking about earlier of being connected to the body, right? Like when have you in this journey, like rock climbing and other things, like when have you gone past your window of tolerance?
Right. And how can you gauge this process of deconstructing these systems and the way that it's taught us how to be and how to love and like, stay tuned into that level of like. Okay. I need an app. I've crossed over my limit. This is a lot. We need to slow down with where we're at. Right. And that journey is going to be different for everybody, but like to just normalize the hell out of that process feels so, so important because I think otherwise people try it and then they're like, Oh, I got scared.
I'm not a climber. Oh, I got scared. I'm not, not monogamous or, you know, any of the labels. It's so, I just, I think it's so important to like hit home that discomfort that comes with unpacking any level of internalized system in our life and that there's no end to that.
Ooh, which brings my thought. To are you triggered?
Are you uncomfortable?
Nicole: How do you tell the difference? I have ideas about how I can tell the difference, but I'm curious what wisdom you have.
Jimanekia: I mean, I often think about like, when we are triggered, we are in an actual traumatic state. Are we, are we fleeing? Are we fawning? Are we freezing? Are we doing any of the above?
Are we having an actual traumatic response? Are we taken back to a particular trauma? Are we having flashbacks? Is it visual? Is it visceral? Or are you just uncomfortable and you don't like it because that's really it? Do you just not like it? Is it hard? Does it make you go, you know, does it hurt? That's not being triggered.
You're just uncomfortable and there's just a lot of buzzwords that the internet has found gaslighting. You're not being gaslit. Someone might have lied to you, but are they trying to lie to you that changes your, the way that you show up in the world, the ways that you have to depend on this person, the ways that like you don't trust yourself.
If not, they might just be a shitty person that's lying to you. They could just be a liar, right? Like, again, we give power to these things and the people learn them. And but like half ass learned them because they saw it on a tick tock from someone that just learned it the other day, and they saw it on Instagram post.
It's getting diluted. It's getting watered down. And we're not actually because I think language is important. Yes, it is. We're not actually using the correct language to express ourselves. So we're not able to show up. We're not able to get the support because we're using the wrong terminology. And Even in, you know, take it back to sex, like in kink.
Yeah, there's people that use different things, but there are very specific words that we should utilize because they're universal and we understand them. If you want to be like, oh, I'd like to hang you with this doodad. You're like, what the fuck's a doodad? I've never heard of her. Okay, let's use correct language.
So we have an understanding. And I think it's the same way when we're trying to share what's happening for us. Tell me about your thoughts on it.
Nicole: I mean, I was thinking about the ways that the field of psychology really has done that, right? We're like, I'll hear people be like, Oh, I was manic. And then I was depressed and this, and like using that to describe just like normal human reactions to things.
And like, as a, as a psychotherapist in general, like I'm trying to, I've been saying, like, you know, just. When a client comes into my room instead of saying like, oh, they have anxiety. I've been trying to use a new future. I think beyond the DSM of like, oh, their nervous system's really activated. And oh, they have these relational dynamics that are going on instead of using these damn diagnoses that I don't even agree with.
Right. Cause I think the DSM
Jimanekia: guys walk away, throw it. This is another, that's also on my list. I was like, I'm not this governing DSM book. If I want to hug a client because they are in need. I want to hug a client. I'd have to write a three page essay about it. Like, yeah, you get it. You get it. I hope y'all get it too that are listening.
Nicole: It's scary, right? It's scary. And so like the ways that that book then is being used in our common language to describe normal human feelings when the history of that. Language and those words is pathologization on an individual context rather than a systemic understanding. So we're starting and so maybe it will just become normalized in a way and we'll just continue to use them.
But I think it is scary to watch that happen where I'm just like, those words meant something and they mean bad things in my opinion. So like, please don't use the language of that. Book, I don't even use the language of that book other than maybe like PTSD, like, I'll stand behind that one. Like, okay.
Trauma trauma's real. Right. You know what I mean? And the neuro, the neuro developmental, you know, those sorts of things, but even that, right. There's much, a lot of conversation around that of like, is ADHD a valid response to sitting at an Excel sheet all day long, trying to survive under capitalism and having a hard time paying attention.
Jimanekia: And. I don't know. I don't know. Question. Do you get people that listen to your work and have pushback or questions? Do you get one or the other more?
Nicole: In terms of like therapy clients or just general life?
Jimanekia: Like on your podcasts?
Nicole: Mm hmm.
Jimanekia: Doing these, because I Also have podcasts in life and it's like these conversations continue to force us to grow.
Oh, and so I'm like, have you seen different ways that you've also grown and like your responses to the pushback and then the questions. Sure.
Nicole: Yeah. I mean, when I first started this podcast, I didn't know what Fetlife was. So if we can go,
Jimanekia: well, that's, that's a place to update it. Can we talk about that?
Whoever your owners are, we could update it.
Nicole: Totally. What is up with that? I know, but like that level of having no nothing. Right. I think like way back, even the first time I was recording with sex workers, you know, and hearing these. things and going like, Whoa, you know, so there's been such a significance.
Um, and I think that I got some feedback from some of my friends who listened to the podcast, who were like, you should disagree with people. So I think like that moment, even earlier with you about disagreeing about heroin has been a journey for me to like, cause you're, you know, it feels like a home where it's like, Oh, I'm inviting you into my home.
I want you to feel safe. I want you to feel lovely. I want you to feel amazing. Right. And so to get to the space, to be like, actually, I disagree here has been like, A level of dysregulation in my body at times where I'm like, Oh my God, I'm about to disagree. Ah, with the guests. So then I've gotten better at being like, no, it's okay.
It's okay to do that. Right. And like push back and, and have a little bit of a, you know, a back and forth. So I think that's been a, definitely an area of growth of getting more comfortable with, with disagreeing with people in this space and having a different thought or coming to different conclusions.
Jimanekia: I love a teaching moment. I hope people take that away and like, learn that you're allowed to disagree.
Nicole: Yeah.
Jimanekia: Right. Like, I, I talk about, I do some communication stuff as well. And like, the power of like, being able to disagree or use your no is like, so educational and reflective and allow other people to also do it, which I'm like, people don't realize you're we're constantly all watching each other.
Like, well, how do they do in life? What are you doing over there? Right. I didn't know that was an option.
Nicole: Right. Right. And that being so crucial to have beautiful experiences when you're playing, right? The ability to say no and to not take that as a rejection, huge one, right? Like, Hey, I think I'm done having sex for the night.
Oh my God, did I do something wrong? They don't like me.
Jimanekia: It's not necessarily about you. Right. Not about you, but what about you? I'm tired. I'm chafed. Look, she chafed. I'd like to tap out.
Nicole: Yeah, and if you can't express your no without that level of safety, like, can you really consent back to safety
Jimanekia: safety is really big to me in all of the things, because if you don't feel safe, you can't be present a trick that I use.
I, in a lot of my work, I use like laughter. I think, I think comedy. It lightens the mood, but also I'll tell you a dark story in a minute, but I think you're also present and you're laughing. You're present. And so I'm going to say a sad thing. The day my dad died, it was such a roller coaster day. I had signed my wrestling contract.
I was super excited and I was super excited to come home to tell my family and do all the things like they knew, but I had like, officially signed it and I was coming home to a second date with this, this guy who I like, who's now my boyfriend and my family started calling me like, Oh, well, what time are you coming back?
I'm like, first off, who uses phone calls? Wow. And I was like, I'm on the plane. Okay. Then someone else texted me. And I was like, that feeling that something was off. I landed and my mom called me and she was like, I had to put your dad back in the hospital. He had, uh, prostate cancer and it had dissipated.
He was gone. He was in the clear. It came back, spread his bones within a month. He declined very quickly, very quickly. I asked her one question because I, I know who she is and I said, are you scared? And she said, yes, and that for me, I knew because I know her. And so I landed, I was talking to this guy and he's like, well, what do you want to do?
He's like, we don't have to go there. And I said, honestly, I would like to go to dinner still, because something tells me I will never get to celebrate. Me signing my dream job contract, we had a beautiful dinner. We had a beautiful time on an adult. We had a beautiful adult time and then I got the call that his organs were shutting down.
And I was like, what? Like, it just, it just all felt so real. And he packs me up and he was like, it's time got me to my car. And I was like that day, I was like, Oh, I'm going to love this person already knew it. And I get to the hospital and it felt. Like a movie, like I've landed, I parked, my cousins came downstairs, one of them was smoking, I grabbed it, smoked it, and the other one goes, are you ready?
I walk upstairs. And I don't speak to the person working the door. I looked at him. He opened the door. I have to walk. And I tell this whole story and to talk about grief, the one experience that we all have that no one talks about, which is wild to me. And then two, I walked into the room when my dad hit zero.
And for me in that moment, I hear my mom go, Oh, you made it. And I'm like, to what? Yeah. And. In that moment, I see my cousin in the corner, like not being able to, and I see my aunts and my other cousins and her and everyone is sobbing. And what I did was what I always do. Like I showed up and I played my role and I'm calm them, but I also made them laugh.
Because in that moment. I could control that, which allowed me to at least allow them to breathe. Because if you're laughing, you're breathing. If you're breathing, you're present. If you're present, you're alive. And those felt like the biggest things in that moment. And so I've always used laughter as like a healing tool, as a connector.
Because it's healthy for us. And I think people overlook that. And then talking about the grief aspect. What do you do in that moment? Right? Like we're grieving many parts of ourselves. We, we grieve looking back and like, remember when I was a teenager, we grieve our old bodies as we age. We grieve the ability to do things.
We grieve personal loss. Romantic loss. Like, we all grieve, but we don't talk about it.
Nicole: I'm taking a grief and loss and mourning class next semester, so maybe I'll hold that, right? Uh, uh, yeah, it's so true. Grieving the futures, right? That we dream of and start to construct. That's a painful one for me, right?
But yeah, what a moment to be there with your family and to bring that laughter for them and, and, and such a, Specific moment like that. I just, uh, my heart goes out to you.
Jimanekia: It's a journey and you know, I'm still on it. I still have to have my first Christmas. We just did Thanksgiving. That was stupid. Um, tough.
Yeah, I say all this to say that these are all a part of our journeys,
Nicole: right?
Jimanekia: Sex for some, some people are not for them relationships. For some, some people have different types of relationships, death for all. We all will experience death, animals, family, friends, coworkers, parents. Right?
Nicole: Yeah.
Jimanekia: And in this whole conversation, it truly has just been about existing.
And the way is that you existing. There's so many things that are thrown at us. And how do you navigate it in a way that works for you?
Nicole: Yeah, I think part of that is not staying in a victim mentality about it, right? Like to be able to like take empowerment over your narrative and choose how you want to show up in that space.
I think that's a really important frame, you know, the realities of what happened. Happened, but what's the frame to it is this happened and this is how I want to respond to that. Right. And so I think part of that is that discussion of how are we seeing these experiences and hopefully we have community, right?
As taboo as maybe some of these topics are, I think that's something we hit on a lot with sexuality and relationships certainly, but also death, right? Like, do we have people where we can openly talk about the pain and the difficulties of that, which, yeah, it takes us all the way back to your first experience, right?
Kind of like. That healing that comes through community of opening up to people about that
Jimanekia: community is big in all aspects of our lives. And I think a lot of us in probably for you as well, I know for myself is I wouldn't be where I am without community. For community to call me in, to call me out, yeah, call me out, hug me, sit with me while I'm crying, laugh with me, do some debauchery together, like all of it.
We're constantly learning and growing from each other and without community, I don't know where I would be.
Nicole: Right. Right. Yeah. And feminist psychology would say our sense of self is created by our relationships, right? So we can be created by our relationships to people, nature, spirituality, systems, etc.
And also the reality that even when those things shift and change, you're the one that has gone through all these experiences of reality, right? Like your narrative, your experience is your own. So part of it is the experiences you have in life, but truly like the rest of it is like, Relationships. And so we're always asking these questions of like, what's my personality?
Like, what's my personality? What is it? And I'm like, it's a reflection of everything you're connected to. Okay. As much as there is that individual that experiences all those moments in life, the majority of it is your relationships, your culture and what tells, you know, like, so I, I find it really interesting that collectively we're always trying to go towards this like individualistic focus of like, who am I, who am I, who am I versus like, that's the problem.
Right. Who am I connected to and what's my community?
Jimanekia: We aren't built to just be solo people.
Nicole: No,
Jimanekia: no. We're not built to be solo people. We're built to be community oriented and we will see over and over and over and over and over how that does not work. Doesn't work. We can turn the TV on right now and see how it's not working.
Nicole: Right.
Jimanekia: Exactly.
Nicole: But this worked. I loved talking to you.
Jimanekia: I love someone's brain that goes. Oh, we're doing this. Yes.
Nicole: Let's go. You know, just go deep. There's
Jimanekia: so many things we could talk all day, but this feels like community.
Nicole: Yeah. And I hope that's what my listeners feel. Right. Particularly, again, given the taboo nature of all this that they could come back each week and, and know that there are other people who are doing this out there and if they can't find those people in their community directly right now, just to know that they exist, right?
And that you can tap into them. And there's many of us, look at how many people have been on the show, there's many of us out here, these pleasure activists that are changing the narrative around these things.
Jimanekia: And that's the fun part because you get to find someone that you resonate with because we don't all look alike.
We don't all do the same things. We don't all have the same hobbies. We're not all obsessed with the same sex things, different sex things. We're all over the place. So please. Do your research, ask some questions. Use your good girlfriend Google, she's free.
Nicole: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, I want to hold some space as we come towards the end of our time, just to check in and see if there is anything you wanted to say to the listeners that maybe we didn't get to.
Otherwise, I can guide us towards a closing question.
Jimanekia: What I hear in my head is boundaries. Ooh. Yeah. I think for me is the constant reminder that you are allowed to set boundaries with anyone, including your family, especially around the holiday seasons when shit and people are like, Oh, you got to spend time with us.
I mean, if you want to, you don't have to, you can say no, you can say yes. You can say, let me come back to this conversation. You can, you can leave. Right, like, I want people to set boundaries with other people. I do this speech at the end of, uh, when my volunteering at feed the street. So I will say the same thing here, set a boundary with yourself and you have to monitor that.
You have to obtain that. There is no one else. That is, that is a you thing, but also set a boundary with someone else. And if they do not respect it, You can let them lose you and or tell them to fuck off. Now, let them lose you because we're constantly be like, oh, I lost this person. Uh, but you, they chose to not respect you and obtain and support your boundaries.
So let them lose you
Nicole: the frame. They're right. Like, how are you seeing that experience? I lost them versus they're losing me. Yeah. It's the power of it. Totally. The power
Jimanekia: back sets of boundaries. Please set a boundary for your five. You probably need to go.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's one of the scariest things when I'm playing with someone.
I'm like, what are your boundaries? And they're like, I don't know. I don't really have any.
Jimanekia: Oh, I'm like, well, I'm out.
Nicole: Yeah, red flags, red flag alert. No, no.
Jimanekia: It's true. I'm like, so you just do everything. Yeah, you just, you just, you like everything. Okay. I throw something out there. Like, I don't like that. I said, see?
Nicole: Yeah.
Jimanekia: We're already not on the same page.
Nicole: Right? Communication. Super important. Yeah.
Jimanekia: Totally.
Nicole: Uh, well, if it feels good to you, I'll guide us towards a closing question. Yes. Okay. Well, then the question that I ask every guest on the podcast is what is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal?
Jimanekia: Bodies respond to different things, and it doesn't mean that you're actually aroused or into it.
Nicole: It's 2024, people. Can we just use lube? Like, what the fu Why is that such a Lube Lube
Jimanekia: all the holes. All
Nicole: the time. All the time. Add more. Add more. Slippery slide. What? What?
Jimanekia: I will stop you. I was having sex with my boyfriend this weekend.
I was like, stop. Give more lube. You want to keep going? Give more lube. Yes. He's like, okay, lube.
Nicole: Yes. Every time. Please. My God. I guess there was so much shame I had about that one of like, Oh, I'm not producing or this or that. But it's like, can we please let that go? And obviously then also the opposite, right?
Of having that reaction in situations that are not at all, you know, non consensual experiences. Right. Right. Right. But. In my experience, I felt so much shame to be like, please use some lube.
Jimanekia: Yeah. Bodies respond in different ways. You might have specific arousals and not be actually into it. Right. I am someone that has a very happy vaginal canal.
Doesn't mean I'm always ready. It might seem like I'm ready, but like, you still got to warm me up.
Nicole: Right.
Jimanekia: And in just in life in general, like bodies respond to different things. You might flick me and I might start crying. And that might just be like a response. Am I in pain? I don't know. Maybe. But also just normalizing that bodies respond.
And I think that when your body responds a specific way, you should do a little more investigating.
Nicole: Yeah. And have fun enjoying that journey of the process, right? Of investigating and continuing to explore. Yeah. Buckle up. It's the best journey I've gone on thus far in my life. So I think there's a lot of joy and exploration there.
Yeah. Hmm. Well, it was such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Thank you.
Jimanekia: It was so fun. I love a podcast. I love a, I love a chat. I think that. It's educational in ways for some people that they don't get through a book.
Nicole: Yeah, I think dark side is that as we continue to go down this world of TikTok and stuff, I'll be curious.
Book sales are very down. So and it's dynamic, right? There's that like back and forth. And I think a lot of also what I hear too, is that When we're having this conversation, it's embodied, you know, not that words aren't in their own power, but I get to hear your emphaticness and the ways that we laugh when we go back and forth.
Like, I think there is such a power to this work of hearing truly the embodiedness of the words that maybe sometimes we're lacking in books.
Jimanekia: Context. Prosody. Prosody is important.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Yeah. Where would you want to plug for all the listeners to find the important work that you're doing?
Jimanekia: Yes. So I am Jiminica on all social media, so you can find me on all the things.
My website is traumaqueen. love. And. Please go check out Tedding the Garden. Teddingthegarden. love is my nonprofit where we support marginalized sexual assault survivors. And also it has really cool things that we're doing 2024. We're gonna have a lot of cool stuff, but one thing that we do have that we started in 2023 is subscription boxes for sexual assault survivors.
Very cool. And so when I say it's for sexual assault survivors, that is who it was created for. But it's for everyone. Let's be honest. Our first box we did was a grounding box. Then we did a watering box and we just released, which will still be available when you hear this, a box called When You're Ready. And that is for when you're ready to get back into sexuality and sex and connecting with yourself. And so for me, it's like we get tons of like subscription boxes or things like, why not get like a little curated box just for you? That is one of the coolest things I've gotten to do this year. I think in my brain, like, yeah, wrestling, so fun.
But like to be able to create that box. And continue doing it is really exciting. So please check that out. And if you are someone that is experiencing stalking or has been stalked, please look at the work of Lenora Claire. And she became a PI to be able to help individuals. So I'm very much excited to be connected to that person.
And there's a lot of individuals that deal with stalking again, that we don't talk about.
Nicole: Yeah, exactly. I'm really thankful for all the work that you're doing and the people in your community that are doing such important work for the world and our pleasure. Thank you for coming on the show today.
If you enjoyed today's episode, then leave us a five star review podcast and head on over to to modernanarchypodcast. com to get resources and learn more about all the things we talked about on today's episode. I want to thank you for tuning in and I will see you all next week.
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